JB: Welcome to Commerce chats. I'm joined today with Matt Dunphy, the lead solutions engineer at commercetools. Welcome, Matt. It's great to be talking to you. How are you doing today?

MD: I'm doing great. It's good to be here.

JB: I just want to say congratulations, with your spouse's, new release at the Royal Albert Hall. I was able to give that a listen. That is amazing. I'll put in a link later (Totality, BBC Prom 3 - starting at 42:50). I mean, but that's that's just wonderful. I'm, uh. But I will settle interviewing you though, okay, so can you tell us a little bit about what you do briefly at commercetools?

MD: Sure. So my role commercetools is a solutions engineer, and what that means is generally, I'm part of the sales process. So, a business will be looking to change out their platform or maybe even start a greenfield, commerce venture. And I listen to them I see where they need help. And if commerce tools can be applied to that, that that pain point, as we like to call them in the industry. So I do a lot of listening. I translate nerdy to English and vice versa. So talking to technical folks, but also business folks, and really just seeing how our technology aligns to where they want to build for transacting in the future.

JB: So you have people skills is what I'm hearing.

MD: That's what they tell me. Yeah

Greenfield versus Incremental Projects. Flink going Zero to $2 Billion in Two Years.

JB: So do you have a preference when it comes to engaging with the client? I've always been fascinated by this. Of greenfield versus the incremental or the pivot. Like which one do you like? You've got an existing brand or you got, you know, one of those times where it's like a totally new brand or they're moving into commerce the first time, do you have a preference?

MD: The greenfield is interesting to me because generally when you're talking to commerce tools about a greenfield build the folks who are involved are anything but green. They've been through the wars and they've got an idea, and they want to execute on it in a way that is very different. and I've, I've only had, I think, one of those opportunities where they were in the auto parts sector. Mhm. a lot of ways to buy auto parts online. Right. but here's somebody who has been through that for decades and sees a new way to do things. Although my favorite story about a greenfield customer was in Europe, um a company called Flink a bunch of folks from the grocery world were like, let's do grocery delivery. And we want to scale fast. they they went from zero again, Greenfield to $2 billion in two years. which is just kind of unfathomable to me. Yeah, yeah. but, you know, that's that's the neat thing about this role as, as an SE is I'm talking to really smart people who have really neat ideas, whether it's an incremental build or whether it's hey, I see a hole in the market and let's go for it.

Onward through the Fog: Dealing with Uncertainty in e-Commerce Projects When the Path is Unclear

JB: Yeah, I, I think that's probably one of the most fun elements of being a, I would say systems integrator for ten years, ten, 12 years. And all of the different types of smart people that you get to meet and you get to see how all these different companies work, you know, and there's a lot of things that are very common there. But there are also some things that are unique. It's it's really exciting. I mean it's the downside is, is that, you know, your relationships sometimes are, you know, apportioned out, you know, for each of those projects. But it's really great to get that type of type of exposure. And it must be interesting considering that at least from my impression, I've done several commerce tools implementations. commercetools is not necessarily a starter set. Like a lot of times people are growing into that. So to be able to do something at that scale, but to really have a clean feel that that just kind of the it boggles the mind of what's possible. And apparently you can get to 2 billion from zero. But if you it's like those people that the when they put the house together like in 55 minutes because they have all of the parts there, it's, it's fun to watch, there's a head shop in Austin, Texas called Oat Willie's, and they're, obviously well known in the e-commerce community, but their motto was onward through the fog. And oftentimes that's really where either a literal or metaphorical fog in this case where most of the e-commerce projects work. If it's not greenfield? How do you deal with that fog?

MD: You know, it's it's about learning about what the company's doing, asking what they want to do in ten years. And I also really like founder's stories, like, yeah, when talking to a business. How did you start? Right Was this, you know, were you at a booth in an arts and crafts show and you blew up? is this a family run business? You've been iterating through generations and dodging and weaving as as the world and technology changes. Who's going to be working on this stuff? Who is working on it? And what's the plan? it is for me, a lot of just learning and listening. and also talking about the experience that I have both when I was doing implementations, but just seeing what our customers do, and even in my own life pushing through like, hey, I don't know if this is going to be I don't know how it's going to turn out, but I need to do something and let's just push through it. Let's make just pick a direction and go,

JB: The picking a direction is it's it's sometimes a little bit unsettling because you want to have that perfect view and it's just not there, you know? And sometimes you just gotta make a choice and to say yes and.

What Companies can do to prepare before they start an e-Commerce Project.

JB: Let's say that I'm a e-com company, and I'm having to make this change. I'm trying to engage new e-commerce platform, new CMS. It could be, you know, any one of those, what is the stuff that I need to have together before I start having that type of engagement

Yeah, I think a couple of things come to mind. First and foremost: budget. Right? Make sure that you've got your stuff together, that you've got everybody aligned. and you're not just sort of one person out there who says, you know what? I think I could change the whole company by by updating this stuff. And then I think an understanding of what you think is holding you back and nothing's perfect. Right. You might be on a system that has done you well for five, ten, maybe 15 years, and maybe even internally. Everybody thinks, oh, it's great. but when you talk to somebody on the outside and they ask you questions that you hadn't even thought about because you've been working within this sort of bubble of the technology that you have, getting a little bit of outside perspective to, to help you, you know, with the known unknowns out there when it comes to what is the next step for how we're doing business, is it just making more money? Okay. How do you do that? Are you expanding brick and mortar? Are you acquiring businesses? Are you changing how you market? are you opening new channels? is it just building different engagements? moving more quickly in terms of seeing how people react to what you put online? and you know, think think about it less in terms of do I, do I have the shiniest new thing and do I have the thing that I see everywhere? Think of it in terms of, you know, what is my team doing today? How could we do more if we did things differently? And I think that's that's it is it's tough, but like, think about changing. it's it's it's scary. It's risky, but without risk you don't get quite the reward.

Will Commodification of e-Commerce make it disappear into the background?

JB: What's next for your boy Kelly? You know Kelly?

I've heard of Kelly. Yeah, yeah.

JB: So he's saying, like, the World Wide Web is going away and we're going to evolve into something else. I think it involves robot overlords or AIS or something along that lines. It's really it's an interesting piece. But what what's your what's your thought on what's next for for e-commerce.

No he's not not wrong in that. You know, we're I have lived in an unusual space when it comes to tech awareness and tech education, the fact that as a kid, I was taking apart and reassembling computers, that in high school, I'm editing source code and um Growing to see now generations who grew up on iPads and apps with no access to a file system breaks my nerdy little heart. But I also have to accept that it is. This is how things change. I'm sure there are people who are like, what do you mean? You've never pulled the choke to start a car? Yeah, right. Like, how can you know how an engine works if you don't? Yeah. It's. And so it's I think it is interesting that the web as we know it, you know, memorizing http colon slash slash whatever. Put that out of your head Right. Most people don't even understand what's running behind an app or or a device. You know, we're we're seeing a lot of false starts with these sort of internet connected AI standalone devices. Like what was it, the rabbit like? That thing was kind of a joke, but I think it's going to be one of those things, like the globe where the core idea not a bad idea, just the technology isn't there yet. The audience isn't there yet. and it's that's the thing is, moving away from the more specialized, there's always going to be some element of that, just like there are still ham radio operators, right? Yeah. but there's, there's going to be this simplification of like, people still watch lots of TV ordering from your TV. Real easy. what does that look like? Does it involve a separate device? Is it tied into your TV? TVs are computers themselves at this point? Yeah. and events, this is something that I've you know, as a music fan, I've always been curious about how with live performances of music you start out with things like being able to purchase a recording from that night, but also like while you're there now they're handing out these devices that you put, you know, this LED thing on, on your wrist and everybody holds it up and it flashes, uh yeah. And you get these wonderful patterns in the crowd. Take that to the next level where it's like, you're so excited. Do, do something with that. And I'm cringing a little bit because I am so anti marketing and sales, which is very funny, but I hear myself where it's like you can have the upsell on that. Yeah, yeah and, and these disposable devices becoming transactable. Yeah. I think that's, that's something that interesting in all senses of the word is one of the ways that we're going in terms of commerce transactions and, and relationships with customers. Mhm.

The Human touch in e-Commerce

JB: So Kurt Vonnegut came to Trinity University in San Antonio, Texas, and by dint of being working on the newspaper, I was able to inveigle my way into a classroom that he was talking to them, and we were talking about the internet, he didn't like it. Yeah. Like it. He said the problem with it. And I remember he reached out, he smoked Pall Malls like straight Pall Malls. He says the thing about the internet that it lacks and he reached out his hand, lacks this the connection. He put his hands on his chest with his big rumpled blazer. How how do we maintain the humanity I mean, like you even say, it almost sounds absurd. But I think it's important. There are merchandisers here. There are marketing managers. There are people that are using these systems. And how do we make sure that we keep the humanity in e-commerce? We keep the the care for the experience, not only of the customer but of the users of these systems? How how do we prioritize that? How can we make that better?

MD: And you're going for the the real softball questions here. It exists everywhere. it just kind of it's a challenge of of conception, I think.

But, if I could tie that back to sort of Kelly's point about, you know, the web going away and he also talks about commoditization of e-commerce. I just got back from that, that trip to the UK, we went to World of Wedgwood. I bring this up because when you think of dishes everybody has dishes. Mhm. Porcelain whatever Stoneware. Um you don't even think twice right. You can get them super cheap. but this guy Wedgwood in the 1700s changed technology and then created this idea of mass production around ceramics and competing with what's coming out of China. There's a whole interesting back and forth in terms of technology with the West and the East, and who's copying and who whatever. and then that thing that becomes sort of the differentiator that makes Wedgwood so wealthy that he goes on for generations. Darwin comes from Wedgwood like he's he's like his great grandson or something like that. And then the needs change and, you that that advantage goes away. But there's still a niche around. You can go to Wedgwood's factory today and see them handcrafting ceramics as well, but they also have been acquired by Fiskars. And it's it's going to be kind of like that where, things, things are going to become so normalized and standard that the depth that we're talking at today is almost like the conversations that were happening in, in Staffordshire and the 1700s and the 1800s about moving away from Hand-painting and using transfer. Mhm. and, uh it's you can't just rest on your laurels. Everything's always changing.

JB: Well, on that note, matt Dunphy, thank you for joining me. for commerce chats. I hope that we get to talk again.

MD: It's been a pleasure. Look forward to next time.